David R. Francis - Thanks to Occupy rich-poor gap is front and center
Thanks to Occupy, rich-poor gap is front and center. See Mitt Romney's tax return.
Publication History
July 19, 2010
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2012/0124/Thanks-to-Occupy-rich-poor-gap-is-front-and-center.-See-Mitt-Romney-s-tax-return
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So, Romney paid $6.2 million in federal taxes over the last 2 years on more than $42 million in income. Do the math. That's a tax rate of under 15%. How many middle class families are paying 15% in federal taxes?
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Nick Ushin Lowry i liked the way the romney spokesperson kept emphasizing that it was all "completely legal within the tax code" -
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Nick Ushin Lowry certainly ....which just goes to highlight the basic question that transcends the legality. fairness
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Keith Larman Honestly I don't have a problem with him if he is following the tax code. The bigger issue is that the code is tilted towards the very wealthy. So many deductions and "adjustments" are there solely for extremely narrow interests of the very wealthy or very powerful (or are those the same?). Corporations push for special breaks and credits that are of very specific benefit to them citing "helping them compete and grow jobs". But usually those very credits and benefits, while helping that corporation, also hurt the larger economy as a whole. It distorts the entire playing field. So pretty soon they become "invaluable" and unassailable. Heck, consider the mortgage interest deduction. We simply couldn't continue to afford our house without it. It's nothing fancy, but that deduction is huge relative to anything else we can deduct. It keeps our tax liability vastly lower. And while we could have a conversation about removing that deduction the reality would be that doing so would force 10's if not 100's of thousands of people our of their homes.
But with capital gains it is very different. There is little evidence the level of taxation on capital gains makes any difference in investment behavior. Over time we see changes in investment when the market tanks or the market surges. But investment stays relatively stable even with changes in capital gains tax rates. Of course it could be "too high" but the idea that having it lower "encourages" investment is simply not borne out by history. So there is little reason why one would want to have the low level of capital gains taxation we have today, especially when the government is working on a deficit. If anything the issue of fairness would suggest it should be no different than any other income as the often argued benefit of increased investment is simply not seen in the real world.
This should be a no-brainer. But... When the guys with the money make the rules... That's the bigger problem in my mind. Money in politics. One top Republican is neck deep in cash. The other top Republican has been on sale to the highest bidder his entire career. Neither is a good option. Then Ron Paul is nuts. And Santorum it bat-shit crazy. People complain about the Muslim Brotherhood having influence in the Arab world. But no one complains about this religious fanatic imposing his rigid religious ideals in ours?
It all sucks... -
J.w. Burkey Keith: You are right: "The bigger issue is that the code is tilted towards the very wealthy." -
Tobin E Threadgill I find it interesting that most people who oppose capital gains being taxed as income have never actively invested their own money. I have, and I can tell you it would not have influenced my investment decisions one bit. For the life of me I do not understand why so many wealthy in this country fight tooth and nail against paying their fair share of taxes. I guess its just blind greed.
And another thing about Romney and "completely legal". I'm not so sure.... Putting your money in Grand Cayman, The Canary Island and Switzerland is not exactly the actions of someone being totally above board. Ask youself why would someone go to all that trouble and move his money into such cash havens. Is it some altruistic drive to help out those poor countries and their struggling economies?
Riiiiight..... -
Keith Larman No, I think there's no doubt he was quite aggressive in reducing his tax rate. He probably has a room full of accountants and lawyers working on that justifying their own existence. But the fact is that the code allow for all sorts of shady things. And most of those things are not things that the average Joe will ever be able to utilize themselves. They exist solely to allow the very wealthy to keep more of their money. Whether it's "right" is another issue entirely. When you get to write your own rules it's much easier to stay "legal".
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Scott Irey working accounts management for the IRS (hold the boos and hisses) I can tell you this: It is never the the tax payer who pays the 15% who calls in wondering when their return will be finished so they can use their refund to pay catch up on their mortgage. On the inside we all know the system is not fair to the little guy, but we simply enforce the rules, we don't make em. The wealthy "need" to carry a heavier burden. It is not about what percent of income goes to taxes, it is about how many dollars are still in teh bank after the taxes have been payed. -
Arturo Girona Toby: he also donated $4 million to charities (including his church). His low rate is because most of the earnings are capital gains and dividends, which are taxed at a lower rate than regular earnings. If you scrutinize Warren Buffett, Bill Gates and Stece Jobs´tax returns they probably pay en even lower rate. So let´s not criminalize making money honestly and legally...even if some people don´t like it. -
Tobin E Threadgill Explain why capital gains are taxed lower than income?
BTW....I make a lot of money on my capital gains every year and I would not begrudge paying more in taxes. It's an easy windfall for me. -
Scott Irey I don't think Toby criminalized it at all. He simply points out that this guy is money, money with political power and aspirations to the highest office in the nation. And, he seems to have no interest in changing a system that is unfairly skewed towards the wealthy.
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Tobin E Threadgill Also....Why put so much of your money in cash havens like Switzerland and The Canary Islands? I know the answer, but I wonder if you do?
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Scott Irey I know! I know! But working on the inside, I get told why and don't have to pay an expensive tax accountant to tell me why :)
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